Jessica Osborn [00:00:00]:
You're listening to she's the business podcast. Today we are talking all about integrity over influence. How to transform your sales approach in the age of authenticity so you can stop hating sales and boost your new client welcome rate by 20% or more. Right? Wow, that sounds amazing. I know that we would all love to see more authenticity and more integrity in sales and in selling and even in feeling that when we're doing our own selling. So that sounds interesting to you. Stay tuned. This is coming right up.
Jessica Osborn [00:00:38]:
Hi, I'm your host Jessica Osborne, and in my 23 years of business and marketing, I've built many brands to become multibillion dollar companies. And just in the last ten years, I built two online businesses of my own. From my dining room table with two little babies running around at my feet, I've made it my mission to inspire.
ESTHER GRETTON [00:01:01]:
You to get out of your own.
Jessica Osborn [00:01:02]:
Way and become the successful business owner who's living the lifestyle you really desire without all the hustle. This is she's the business podcast made by women for women. This is your weekly dose of motivation and inspiration. My very special guest today is Esther Gretten, who is a sales coach and consultant for entrepreneurs in service based businesses. She has an absolute stack of expertise and experience with more than 20 years sales experience in services, consulting, training and corporate. She's had her own businesses for over ten years now. She spent five years lecturing in business, marketing and sales at universities and has been a qualified executive coach for more than eleven years.
ESTHER GRETTON [00:01:54]:
Wow.
Jessica Osborn [00:01:55]:
That is some serious credentials there. Now, Esther knows her thing when it comes to sales and most importantly, not icky salesy tactics that are sort of there to hoodwink you or get you to say yes to something you don't really want. But she's absolutely all about authenticity and integrity when it comes to selling and just making the whole process feel super easy. So I know you're going to love what she has to say. She's got so much value that she provides in this chat that we have together, really helping to explain what the stages are of the sales process and particularly around the sales call, which I think is where we all feel the most awkward, right? But she breaks it down and explains what this means for us and how we can remove the ick and remove the awkwardness and feel confident and obviously have a much better result because of it. So without further ado, let me play this interview for you and introduce you to the lovely Esther. Awesome. I'm here with Esther Gretten who is a sales coach and consultant.
Jessica Osborn [00:03:04]:
Esther and I actually met because she came and joined me in my business jam program a while ago. And it's been amazing to see her really grow and evolve into this business, which isn't her first rodeo, but she's going to tell us a lot more about it and then we're going to have a great chat all about selling with integrity over influence. And that is really Esther's entire premise, I think, around your business. Would that be right, Esther?
ESTHER GRETTON [00:03:31]:
Yeah, absolutely. Spot on. It's integrity of influence is really a really area that I'm excited to talk about today.
Jessica Osborn [00:03:39]:
Yes. Amazing. Now, can you tell everybody exactly what it is that you do in your business? Who do you help with sales? What is it more specifically about that that you do help them with?
ESTHER GRETTON [00:03:51]:
Yeah, sure. First of all, thanks for having me on today. Really appreciate it. I have got my own coaching and consulting business and I've been in business now for about ten years. So as you mentioned, rightfully so. It's not my first rodeo, but this time or this iteration of my business, I've really decided to niche down on my area of expertise. So I am sales coaching and consulting service business owners to really help them sell with ease, particularly on sales calls or sales meetings, whether it's in person or on phone or on a Zoom call like we are today, really knowing what to do before a call, on a call and after a call, so that you feel like you and the person you're having a conversation with, there's ease, there's integrity, there's a flow, there's a strategy, there's a process and all being, well, a sale at the end as well.
Jessica Osborn [00:04:46]:
Yeah, exactly. And I think that this is an area so many entrepreneurs, especially women, if we haven't had a background in sales or in any type of selling, and, you know, even marketers, you think, well, marketers sell. It's like, yeah, but not directly. You know, it's more through messaging and things that you're doing that indirectly sells. So for so many of us, it's not a natural place to be. And I think for me and what I see people talking about or really struggling with two key things that have pop up, one is around authenticity. You know, they feel like if I'm going to be good at selling, then I'm going to be lacking authenticity and, you know, it's going to turn into something that's not me. And the other one is, as you mentioned, integrity and feeling like you can do this with integrity.
Jessica Osborn [00:05:34]:
And again, you know, what do you think has driven this perception of selling as lacking those two things. And how can we bring them back in? How can we shift that?
ESTHER GRETTON [00:05:47]:
Well, this disconnect between people's perception of selling and them doing it is such an interesting area for me. So have a think about it. Anyone who's listening on the call today yourself, Jessica, have a think about a bad sales experience you've had in the past. We can think of so many dodgy sales experiences being the customer. And I think this is what happens when people go into business, generally good at something, right? So they, in terms of services, they've built up a whole toolkit, a wealth of experience in their area of expertise, and they're really proud of that. They've got credentials, they've got experience, they've put a business together, and then all of a sudden they realize, oh, my gosh, I've got to sell these services as well. But what comes up for them, either consciously or subconsciously, is that selling is bad. Selling is manipulative.
ESTHER GRETTON [00:06:38]:
Selling is pulling the wool over people's eyes, and that's not the values that they have as a person. They've gone into business going, I'm good at what I do. I can make an impact in people's lives or businesses in my area of expertise, and I want to make a positive impact in some shape or form. And so that value and that thought process about what they do and then how they think about sales, there is a disconnect there. And that's what throws people. So they think that when they get onto a sales call or go to have a sales meeting or even think about selling, they retract because their values don't align with it. And this is the biggest challenge and hurdle that I think a lot of people in business have. They see people selling or they've had experiences selling where it's been, not how they would do it, or they don't like it, and they think, oh, my gosh, I have to be like that.
ESTHER GRETTON [00:07:28]:
But this is what I want to share today and what I keep banging on about, what I'm passionate about, that actually, you do not need to be like that. Please don't be like that. Actually having integrity, and we'll go a little bit more into what that means. Today is where the shift happens in conversations, particularly sales conversations.
Jessica Osborn [00:07:47]:
Absolutely. And so what would you say are the things that can help somebody to be authentic and to show up and lead that sales call with integrity and feeling really good about it? Are there some aspects that go into this so that you can feel that way?
ESTHER GRETTON [00:08:05]:
Yeah, absolutely. I think, first of all, recognizing how do you currently feel about selling in sales? That will really help you. First of all, figure out where to go from there. And then a little bit of a self diagnosis of why is it that you feel like that? And that'll help highlight the changes you need to make. So, for example, sometimes people's internal thought process or mindset around selling is that it's bad that it's, you know, as we, as we mentioned, all of those things before. So if you can actually then go, okay, well, who am I as a person? I have integrity. I have a service offering that I'm really proud of. I have got great credentials.
ESTHER GRETTON [00:08:45]:
I do make a positive impact in people's lives and businesses. Do a bit of a self check to go, well, actually think about it, if I was on the other end of the customer conversation, to me, I know that's a little bit of a weird thing to think about. Would I be thinking that I have integrity and would I want to be listening to me? And that can often be the shift that someone needs, but then they might look a little bit deeper and go, well, actually, maybe I'm not so certain about how I've packaged and priced my offering. Maybe that's the piece of the puzzle that's missing for me. Or maybe I feel that my communication skills of asking great questions, listening, pausing to hear someone's response, asking a deeper question, clarifying, validating someone's experiences, mirroring back to them what you've heard them say, maybe some of that conversational expertise is a little bit missing. Maybe my sales process, how I invite people onto calls and what I say on a call, and when to ask questions, when to offer my service is lacking. Maybe I don't have a sales process or a way to people, a way for someone to buy from me. So if there's a little bit of a self diagnosis to go, okay, here's some of the missing points.
ESTHER GRETTON [00:10:04]:
That's often when you can go, I need to work on some of these areas first. And having those pieces of the puzzle in place often then gives you that alignment between your values of integrity to come across on a sales call that you're feeling confident to have that conversation.
Jessica Osborn [00:10:21]:
Yeah, definitely. Now, something that I noticed for many, many, many years. And I think people are generally getting better at this now. But I would say it might be where a lot of people start, because either it feels logical, or maybe you've been on the receiving end of some of this, is that you're on a sales call and you have to convince the person on the other end that this is what they want. And I can't tell you how many calls I was on back in the days when I was you heading up the marketing department, and agencies would come in, suppliers would come in to pitch, and they did not shut up. They literally just talked at me for an hour, telling me about how wonderful they are and what their process is and all this stuff. And I got to the point after a few years where I was thinking, this is ridiculous, what a waste of my time. So I used to then stop them and just say, look, keep the presentation to the side, because most of that isn't even relevant to me.
Jessica Osborn [00:11:19]:
Just tell me what you would win an award for. I want to know what you're best at. I don't want to know every single thing about you and all the things that you can do, because until I think that there's something in this for us, and usually I want to hire someone who's best at what they do.
ESTHER GRETTON [00:11:33]:
Right.
Jessica Osborn [00:11:33]:
Not hiring you for all the stuff you might do mediocrely. And so I used to kind of take charge of those calls, but I sat through many, many, many over the years where they were just really trying to convince me. And I'm interested to hear what you have to say about that because I think that that's a common perception or misconception that that's what selling is. Like, oh, I've got to get onto this call, and then I've got to, you know, I've got to try to convince them to say yes and bye on the call. Like, how should we be thinking about it instead? That would lead us to be having a much more fun and probably more productive and a higher converting experience.
ESTHER GRETTON [00:12:15]:
Yeah. That story you share is just so common, and it is what underlines and underpins that sales mindset challenge that we were talking about before. You just think to yourself, oh, I'm not that person, so therefore I'm not going to sell, or I don't want to be that pushy person. We've all met those people even at parties, haven't we, that they just keep ravening on about themselves. Don't ask one good question, keep talking. And you're just there listening, going, how do I get out of this conversation? So it happens personally and professionally all the time. There's a couple of pieces to unpack there, I think, on sales calls, and you kind of liken a sales call also to a conversation that you might have at a party, right? So think about those experiences when you're connecting with another human being in a conversation, on a sales pool, at a party, in a boardroom, on Zoom, it doesn't matter if you have got a two way conversation going straight away that feels like it puts both people a little bit more of ease. If one person is leading the way all the time and being the pushy, I'm going to talk all the time, I've got an agenda, we're going to get to this outcome straight away.
ESTHER GRETTON [00:13:27]:
The other person just feels at, you know, what's the opposite of ease? They feel uncomfortable. They feel like their hackles are up. And that shifts the mood or the vibe or whatever you want to call it on a sales call straight away. And that that's where that integrity piece misaligns, because the other person who's being talked at on some level goes, this person's not listening. They don't, they're not validating my experience. They're not having a conversation. And what are you doing? You're retracting away from to have that conversation. But the alternative is when you're on a sales call and you have a clear strategy and process in place that allows for both people to share in terms of talking, allows both people to ask good questions.
ESTHER GRETTON [00:14:13]:
So it shouldn't just be the person selling asking questions. The person who's being sold to should also have the chance to ask questions and opening the space for that. So when there are some pieces of the puzzle in place, it drops everyone's shoulders. And you can actually allow a flow of a conversation to occur that cannot almost be. It can't be strategized, and it can. And I know this sounds funny, but when you think about a sales strategy, you might think, or a process for a sales call, you might think, wow, that sounds really rigid, actually. That sounds like there's a script, that sounds like there's steps you need to do. And yes, there is, because we need to have a bit of a flow on a process of a sales call.
ESTHER GRETTON [00:14:58]:
But part of those sales conversations need to allow for a flow of conversation to occur. Does that make sense?
Jessica Osborn [00:15:04]:
Yes. And he's giving you kind of that structure and guidance as to keep the conversation moving in the right direction and not to go off on crazy tangents.
ESTHER GRETTON [00:15:14]:
I was laughing because I was thinking.
Jessica Osborn [00:15:16]:
Gosh, some of my earlier sales calls, I remember just talking, mainly because I was nervous, right. And so just, I just would keep on talking. I was talking about them, but it was like I didn't shut up, mainly because I was so anxious I think being on that call, and it's interesting. Like, I look back now and laugh and it was hilarious what used to go on. But you know how if other people are listening, thinking, well, I get nervous and I kind of, that's how I tend to fill the silence. And the gap is by talking, you know, what do you say? How do you help somebody come into it? So you're not even in that state, therefore you're not going to go off down these crazy tangents and carry on talking, even though you might have the framework that you kind of, you know, I can just sort of imagine old me doing that with the framework. I'd be like, oh, trying to get through it all, you know, as fast as possible so I could get off the phone.
ESTHER GRETTON [00:16:13]:
Yeah, absolutely. And I know myself, you know, I've been selling in some capacity for 20 years in corporate for my own businesses for the last ten years. And absolutely, in my earlier years, when I was learning the processes, I too was doing all sorts of weird and wonderful things because you think, oh, this is how you sell. Or somebody told me to do ABC. So what I would say for people, particularly in how to navigate that nervousness, which is the question you asked, is be prepared before a call. So there are a couple of things you can do. You can prepare the energy you have in terms of that nervous, anxious energy. If you're feeling quite nervous and anxious, you can actually do some somatic movements to sort of get that anxiety out of your body.
ESTHER GRETTON [00:17:03]:
Sounds weird and wonderful, but go and dance crazy by yourself in the living room with an awesome soundtrack on. Sort of just get that anxiousness out of your body. So that's sort of some, you know, body work you could do or listen or watch something hilarious that brings a little bit more lightness to you. So that's that sort of mindset shift. But in terms of the practical approach of what to do, having a clear process for your sales call is going to be everything. So what are you doing before a call? And some of those things that I just mentioned, who are you speaking with on the sales call? What do you know about them? What questions are you going to be asking? How are you going to start the call off? How are you going to flow somebody through a conversation so that they're feeling heard and validated and respected and that you can discover on a deeper level what their challenges and needs are and how youre service offering can best suit that, if at all. Because sometimes we've got to be honest and go, I don't think I'm the right person for you and refer on to somebody else, but without asking those questions, you can miss the boat on that. So having powerful questions and truly actively listening in sales calls, this is the biggest thing that I think when people are nervous, they don't listen so much to the other person because they're caught up in their own nervousness and anxiousness, and they just think, I've just got to get through the call.
ESTHER GRETTON [00:18:29]:
So they might ask the question, but they're not listening. And then missing so much in that space of listening, truly letting go of your own anxiousness and staying present with that conversation, staying present with the person who's answering your question. That's where a lot of the magic happens, when you're actually purely listening and letting that person really speak what they need to. And even if you sort of see them look up and process and they're not saying anything for a moment, but you know that they're thinking through something, please let them speak. Let them get it all out of their mind and their heart, and then you can work with that information to help unpack things and position your services to be what helps them if indeed there's a match there. Too often what happens in day to day life is people don't get truly listened to. And so when you rock up to a sales school and actually provide that conversational skill to someone, straight away people go, oh, my gosh, no one's listened to me properly for a long time.
Jessica Osborn [00:19:33]:
Yes.
ESTHER GRETTON [00:19:34]:
Yeah, that's a really powerful thing to do. And just shifting the mindset going, why am I feeling nervous? You know, coming back to that self audit that I mentioned at the start, often when you're really cognizant of the fact that you have integrity and that you have something that's really valuable to the prospective client, that can help shift the nerves as well.
Jessica Osborn [00:19:54]:
Yeah, I think that you mentioned just earlier about, do you have confidence in what it is that you're offering? Because it's such a different place to be coming from, a space where you have absolute confidence in yourself and in what it is that you've got for offer. And it's really just a conversation with someone that you may or may not end up presenting it to them and saying, this is what I've got. But it feels very different to, I've got someone on a call and I've got to try to convert them, I've got to try to find a way that they're going to. This is going to be a good fit for them and so if you're in that sort of frame of mind, your brain is going a million miles an hour the whole time trying to figure out where the relevance is and trying to find it so that you can convince them. And what I'm hearing you say is that that's not what we're looking at doing at all. Like, if you coming in, want to do sales in a way that you will have a higher conversion and be attracting, you know, signing on your ideal clients, it's being able to be in a place where you're able to host that call in a way that, you know, the person's really feeling heard and understood. So how do you kind of talk a bit more about that confidence in your offering and what that means? Because that's sort of, I guess, very pre call, isn't it? Like, it's not what you do in the five minutes before it. What are you seeing the lead up into this that helps you to have the integrity and also authenticity in your sales?
ESTHER GRETTON [00:21:21]:
Yeah, absolutely. Great question. So, yes, you're right. It's got to be in the strategy part of your sales process, not the five minutes before. Spot on. So when you think about packaging and pricing you're offering, this is what gives so much confidence and integrity in what you've got to offer. And how do you unpack that is you've got to. You've got to understand what your ideal customer wants combined with what you're really good at and what it is that you can make an impact on that ideal client's business or life with.
ESTHER GRETTON [00:21:52]:
Right. So if you think about the process of unpacking that, what are the key challenges and problems that your ideal customer has and what desired outcomes do they want and what would they be paying money to have help with in whatever it is that you do? So if they're laying awake at night with a problem and a challenge that you know that you can help with, then you've got to understand that problem and challenge on a deeper, deeper, deeper level. Then maybe they understand it. They may say, may understand it on this certain level here, but you've unpacked it all the way down so that when you're creating and curating your offering, it really meets each of the steps to help get them the outcome that they're really, truly needing to help you that challenge or problem, or to help get them to that desired outcome. Because on a sales call, when you're unpacking their challenges and where they're at and what they would really like and what their desires are, what, you know, the brand new day would look like, so to speak, in their business or life, then you have done the work prior to understand that on a deeper level, and it might be a little bit different for every individual or every business that you speak to, but they're going to be some general themes and occurrences that happen, and that gives you the integrity and the credibility and authority to then offer this solution to them. Knowing that you've already taken the ideal client's challenges and ideal outcomes in mind already prior to that call. It's also got to weave in. What are you good at? What's your credentials? Are you adding in things to your service offering that had a lot of experience with.
ESTHER GRETTON [00:23:33]:
I've done that in the past where I thought I needed to offer this whole thing, and turns out that I was really great at maybe 70% of it and 30%. It's not like I wasn't great at it, but it wasn't an area of genius. And when I stripped that back and purely offered what it is that I was great at, that aligned with my integrity more and helped me articulate it better.
Jessica Osborn [00:23:56]:
And just imagine just that different feeling for you knowing, like, what I'm offering is actually what I'm amazing at. And you can sort of stand there with so much more self confidence just in yourself and the ability to talk about it without that feeling of nervousness or awkwardness.
ESTHER GRETTON [00:24:14]:
Yeah, absolutely. And I think that's what I see. A big shift. Probably about five years ago, I was marketing my services and I haven't actually marketed for many years because of having a couple of small children and having repeat clients and Covid and Melbourne lockdowns and moving to Brisbane, there's been a bit going on. Back five years ago, marketing online was quite different than it is now. And this is this integrity over influence piece that I wanted to talk a little bit about today as well, that I think back then, and I can only share my experiences from sort of five years ago to now, and probably even a little bit longer than five years ago, it was the age of, in my perspective, being able to do it all. You know, the business coaches that were saying, I can help you with Facebook ads and sales and marketing and copywriting and thinking that they had to be everything to everyone. I don't know.
ESTHER GRETTON [00:25:09]:
Did you, do you agree with that, Jessica? Are you seeing a shift to people?
Jessica Osborn [00:25:13]:
Well, I used to find it really interesting because I would see people that were like a life coach but would also help you with your business. I like, whoa. So you're actually trying to encompass someone's entire life and everything. Like, are you good at helping them with their life and what they're doing, or are you actually a real business mind? And they were, they were really trying to do it all. They were just like, I can coach you on everything and I'll be like, oh, my goodness. No one can even visualize what that means. You're literally the guru of life. I don't think anyone can be.
Jessica Osborn [00:25:44]:
You're not going to be a guru of everything or a master of everything. Right. And for me, someone you know, Esther, I'm very strong on getting specific with your niche and how it's so important to be able to stand out and standing up actually in your space and owning it is kind of bit scary at times. I think that's why so many people decide to stay broader is because they are afraid of standing in that one space. There's a whole lot to that, but it doesn't do anyone any favors to try to. When you're so broad and generic, then it's like you're trying to wield this great big ship. No one knows what's on the ship. It's so enormous.
Jessica Osborn [00:26:27]:
We would all get lost if we went on a journey.
ESTHER GRETTON [00:26:31]:
Absolutely. And that's, I think, where the misalignment of the integrity people think, oh, if I'm in service based business, I need to be offering all of these things. But really, when you narrow down what you're really great at pertaining to the challenging issue that your ideal client has and helping solve that for them, that's the biggest integrity piece. And that when people feel that, that they're offering something of great value and it truly is that the other person picks it up on so many levels through the tone of voice, through your conversational skills, there's so many levels that it comes across. And I think people more and more in this 2024 era that we're in or year, the integrity piece, authenticity is becoming more and more popular, which is great to see, rather than this. Like, I've got it all together, I'm perfect. Like, everything's amazing and I just follow my steps and your life or business will be, you know, I think people are seeing through that now and they're a bit tired of it. So integrity and honesty is the way to put people at ease and help with your sales.
ESTHER GRETTON [00:27:40]:
But you've got to have some. You've actually got to have a service offering that's going to help people. You can't just use these conversational skills to use that as a trick tactic. You've got to actually deliver the goods and do what you're, you know, what you're saying to people that you can help with.
Jessica Osborn [00:27:56]:
Yes, exactly. And I think that this whole piece you're talking about really helps to get the right people on the call in the first place, doesn't it? Because then you're not going to be in the place of having just such a broad range of people booking calls with you and trying to figure out how you can be relevant to them. If you've sort of done that bit of work up front, then it should be the right people booking on a call with you. So talk to me a bit more about the integrity over influence. You know, I feel like some people would still be like, but when I'm selling, I'm still trying to influence that person into saying, yes. What's your take on it? What is the. Is there any influence or is there an influence that's sort of like a good energy and done in a different way? Like, how could you share your perspective on how we do this in a way that really feels good? It doesn't feel like any of, you know, we're not becoming the Wolf of Wall street.
ESTHER GRETTON [00:28:53]:
We're not just used him in a meme the other day.
Jessica Osborn [00:28:56]:
We're not twinkling people here. We're actually just real people who have a business and we want to help. So, yeah, how do we kind of stay in that energy and still have a conversion, you know, success, success rate on ourselves?
ESTHER GRETTON [00:29:11]:
Yeah. I think this might be counterintuitive to what you would expect a sales coach to say, but I think actually letting go of this idea that we need to have every call result in a sale, I think that takes the pressure off straight away. You are not, and you shouldn't sell to everybody that you have a sales call with. And people might think, hang on a minute, you're a sales coach. You should be sell, sell, sell, get all the numbers. But straight away, that energy or that sort of approach means that you should be, you know, I have to sell to everyone regardless of if they want it, regardless if what I can offer can help them. That straight away shifts the narrative. So if you shift it back to thinking, I'm only going to invite the right people to work with me, that's a shift straight away.
Jessica Osborn [00:30:03]:
Yeah.
ESTHER GRETTON [00:30:04]:
I know you and I both happily married a long time, but think back to your dating days. Imagine if every date you when was going to be, you know, this is going to be the guy or the girl or whoever you're into. Right, be that way.
Jessica Osborn [00:30:16]:
The desperation and the stink of desperation, like I said.
ESTHER GRETTON [00:30:22]:
Exactly. And the potential to mismatch with the wrong person. You don't want every date you go on to be the guy or the person that you marry. Right? It's got to be the right fit, the right person. And it's the same with potential people that you speak to on sales calls. You want to invite the right fit. You've only got so many hours in the day, got so many ways to help businesses make your life and that person's life a lot more enjoyable by only inviting the right people. And so having that shift, I think, shifts your mindset to, I've got to sell.
ESTHER GRETTON [00:30:56]:
No, you've got to connect and get to know that person that you're speaking to. Genuinely, before you even think about selling, get to know that person on the call. Where are they at, where they want to go, them. So many insightful questions. Truly listen to them and see if you're meant to be working together. A lot of the rest takes care of itself. So, honestly, that's my biggest tip.
Jessica Osborn [00:31:22]:
I think that's so good. It feels to me like it's more like you interviewing each other. Like you as much as them. You want to find out if this person's going to be the right fit for you. And something that I love to say to people, people, is when my clients win, I win. So why would I want to bring on someone as a client who's not a great fit for me, who maybe isn't going to get great results? Because that's not going to be a win for my business. Apart from the fact that they've paid me some money, sure. But that's like, in the moment, in the instant, it's so much more valuable for me and my business if my clients are having big successes.
Jessica Osborn [00:31:56]:
Because guess what? I've got a story that I can tell. And no doubt if they're having these successes, they're more than happy to share them, which is so much more valuable for a much longer period of time than that instant sale that we're just thinking about today. So for me, it's a strategic decision. Like, who do I bring on as a client, especially if it's a one to one. You know, I want the people who are actually going to do the work and we're not just going to go round in circles for three months and then they go, oh, well, this didn't work. And what, and, you know, blame everything, the man, the dog, the cat, whatever else has been going on, you know, blame the process, blame all these things, but actually they were just not the right person and the right fit already to do the work. So I 100% am always thinking, is this going to be the right person? And like you, I think you mentioned earlier, refer them.
ESTHER GRETTON [00:32:46]:
Refer them on if they're not the right fit.
Jessica Osborn [00:32:48]:
How good does that feel when you're able to sort of go, I'm picking and choosing who my clients are.
ESTHER GRETTON [00:32:53]:
Absolutely. And when I think about, you know, the approach that I take and the people I work with, they're predominantly on sales calls to work with people one on one. And they might be packages or programs or service offerings, but particularly this approach is really helpful when you're selling to somebody or you're hoping to invite the right fit client on a sales call when you're then going to be working with them for a period of time afterwards. So that's another thing I want people to think about for sales calls, whether they're a 30 minutes call, an hour, whatever they are, utilize that time to go. Is this going to be the right fit for me in terms of the person I'm going to be working with for the next 3612 months on whatever project I'm doing? And if it's not, then you've only invested 30 minutes or an hour figuring that out. That's a really a good way to look at sales pools as well, that they're going to help save your energy potential, overwhelm and burnout and dissatisfaction from choosing to work with the wrong client. So you shift from, I'm not selling to everyone. I don't want to sell to everyone.
ESTHER GRETTON [00:33:58]:
I want to invite the right fit client and I have a great offering and I want the person who I'm offering my service to to actually get a benefit from it. These are the things that are going to shift your thoughts around sales calls?
Jessica Osborn [00:34:14]:
Yes. Amazing. Now, what would you say? I'm interested to hear your take on. On, you know, there's obviously the call, and I know that you have a really great process of what you do beforehand, what you do on the call and afterwards. Is this the primary focus we should be looking at, or do you have any other stuff that we should be doing before that call even happens? Where is the focus and what should it be on? Like, what would you say your top two or three tips are?
ESTHER GRETTON [00:34:45]:
Well, I've created a bit of a framework. Framework because it's what I encourage my clients to do as well. It's easier to speak in frameworks than it is random ideas. It helps to, you know, just conceptualize and contain things. So I've created a four step approach, and the first is around sales mindset. So doing that self audit of where is my sales mindset currently at? And that can also change day to day. Right. You know, we can have some days where we're like, oh, just to not want to get on calls, or other days you do.
ESTHER GRETTON [00:35:14]:
Why is that? What helps shift to you want to get on calls every day? If you do sales calls every day, for example, or I do them Tuesday and Thursday. So I want to do things to get into the sales mindset on Tuesdays and Thursdays. So it's around sales mindset and unpacking that. So that's sort of a deeper process to go. But you can start with that self audit to just figure out where you're currently at and ask yourself, is your sales mindset actually real to your values, or are you projecting those bad experiences you've had in the past? And then you can actually say to yourself, well, do I have those values? No. I'm a good person offering a good service. I have a great program. So I'm not that dodgy person that just wants to sell and talk and pull all over people's eyes.
ESTHER GRETTON [00:36:01]:
The second part of the four step framework is the sales strategy. So that's quite a. Quite a process to go through, because it is figuring out your goals and vision in your business. It is figuring out your ideal client, their challenges, their problems, where they want to go. It is creating the service offering that works well. It's figuring out what are you really great at, how are you positioning what you speak about very succinctly and then more in depth. There's so many elements to that strategy that can be a podcast in itself, but it's figuring out those things. And what I actually like to do is put it on a clear, visible, one piece page so that each day that I'm getting into my business or before I get on sales calls, I can re remind myself, what is my vision? What's my purpose for my business? Who do I want to help? How am I helping them? And it just helps to shift my focus to come back to what's important as opposed to maybe I had a bit of a crazy morning that morning with, you know, getting the kids ready or whatever.
ESTHER GRETTON [00:37:08]:
Right. Whatever happens in your morning, you don't want to go into a sales call with that energy. You want to refocus and reprioritize what's going on. So having a one piece, having your strategy on one piece of paper is really powerful. It takes a fair bit of work to get all of your strategy on one piece. You know, you might think, oh, it's one page, it's fine. But figuring out that and then the sales process is the third step. So what is the process that you have to get people onto calls? Are they easily booking in with you, or is there a lot of back and forth on email and DM? You know, is there an automated process that you have in place that makes it more seamless and easy for both parties to do it? And then what's the process that you're saying on sales calls? How are you starting, starting off the call, what questions are you asking? When do you know to go deeper on something? Or when do you know to go on to the next question? And this is a little bit part of communication skills, which is my fourth step.
ESTHER GRETTON [00:38:06]:
But coming back to the process, the sales process, when is the right time to actually offer your services? The solution, you know, when do you not know to go too early on a call or is to wait? When do you know when to be quiet and listen? When do you know to say, would you like to work with me in some shape or form? How do you say that? You know, there's so many things, and this is going to change for every person. I think sometimes people think in order for me to be good at sales, I have to be really outgoing and I have to be the one that is that person that talks a lot and I have to be super confident. But actually, you need a sales strategy in a process that suits your personality and youre a brand and your business. If you're more of an introverted person, you can sell. If you're very extroverted, you can sell. If you're shy, you can sell. This. Selling is not for the outgoing person who likes to talk.
ESTHER GRETTON [00:39:02]:
This is the people. This is what people think. When I'm in sales calls, I don't like to talk a lot. When I'm at a party with lots of people around, I actually get really shy and nervous. I like to speak to people one on one. So you don't, you don't need to be that. But you need to have a strategy and a process that suits your personality and works with your own energy. And I don't mean energy in a woo woo.
ESTHER GRETTON [00:39:24]:
I mean your temperament, your personality, who you are, because that will actually help you come across more authentically and stop all of the overwhelm and burnout happens.
Jessica Osborn [00:39:33]:
Because you don't need to be someone else, do you? You actually just process yourself. The right people should connect with you. Now, I have a question just on process before we dive into the communication piece, but one of the things that I have a real, like, an authentic question about, because it's something that I hear some people say, I've never done it, but a lot of people say, you've got to try to close the deal on the call. Like, get them to pay with their credit card while you're there on the phone. Don't let them leave the call until they're paid. And, you know, that's quite confronting to me because. Because for me, I'm the sort of person that I do like to think about something. Even if I'm feeling 100% when I'm on the call, I would still then feel awkward or really nervous if I was being pressured to get out my card and pay right on the spot.
Jessica Osborn [00:40:22]:
So because of that, I think I don't do that to people either. When they come, like, have a call with me, I, you know, absolutely. If they're ready to, the link is there and they can do it, but I'm never asking them to because I reflect my own personality out onto them. What do you say about that? Because that would be, I guess, part of process. Right. What is your process for the call? When are you asking them? And then how is the transaction actually going to happen after that point, which is clearly an important part of making the sale? We do want a transaction to happen. Is it on the call after the call? What's your take on that advice with sales calls? Like, is it important to be getting a conversion on the call or.
ESTHER GRETTON [00:41:05]:
Yeah, great question. And as you were talking, I was actively listening, but I also thought about the training that I'd received in the past, because I've received lots of sales training at various times, good, bad, indifferent. And one of the ones was, so are we doing Mastercard or Visa today straight away, not even asking?
Jessica Osborn [00:41:30]:
You know, the double bind, isn't it?
ESTHER GRETTON [00:41:33]:
Yeah. Yeah. So you. Oh, Mastercard. Oh, okay. And that's just tricking people. So I think, well, this is a bit of a. It's a question that's tricky to answer, but simple at the same time.
ESTHER GRETTON [00:41:45]:
So if I think about the sales works, sales work that I've done in the past, there's been some instances where it was really a, to ask for the sale in the moment. But if I think about the ideal clients that I know that you and I share, I actually think that that's the wrong thing to do, to ask for the sale on the call. If it seems like the person is ready to buy in that moment, you might offer it. If you. If they go, look, I'm so excited to work with you. This is, you know, like, when can I start? Like, can we start our first session, like next week? I'm, you know, I've got some time on Tuesday. If that's, that's the way the conversation is going, then sure, go for it then and there. Because you've seen that the other person has come towards you, is ready, is saying yes, is wanting to get a start date in the diary, because I've absolutely been that customer before where I've been so excited to work with someone, I'm like, let's do it.
Jessica Osborn [00:42:37]:
Bang. Let's do it. I'm already 100% yes.
ESTHER GRETTON [00:42:40]:
So if that's the case, then go for it. Whereas if you've gone through your sales process and you've gotten some buying signals, you're like, I genuinely feel like this person is excited to work with me, and I can also feel that they might need some time to think about it. Then my perspective is, you honor and have integrity with what information you're receiving from that person and you're receiving information directly. That is, they may say to you, look, this is great, but I just need some time to think about it. Or you might be receiving the information indirectly, which is they just, you know, there's a little bit of, I wouldn't say uncertainty necessarily about what it is you're offering, because if you've got a clear sales process, there shouldn't be a lot of uncertainty. And if there is, that's your, that's your process to actually ask some deeper questions, to help unpack some things. But I don't think asking for a sale on the call or making a sale on the call every time is the way to go. What I do think is that you have a sales process after a call to make that sale easy, if it's the right fit.
ESTHER GRETTON [00:43:45]:
So this might be controversial, but I'm a big believer in offering something that's of time sensitive value after a call. So you have got a sales process in place, hopefully that, you know, after the call, you send them an email, you know, recapping or you've got something already created and you've got links for them to, you know, buy your services. So it's, you know, it's all automated and set in place and that you offer something that is of time sensitive nature. That if you're ready to work with me and if the time's right to honor that, I want to gift you something, you know, there's going to be something that's of value for them to receive within that time period. And the reason that I do that is that one, I want to give people time to think. And it could be a day, it could be 48 hours, it could be a week. It's different for every person and what they're offering and what they need to do behind the scenes to make that happen. You could be selling to a bigger business that needs, you know, to get buy off budget approvals, or you could be selling to one individual that just needs to sort out a few things, right.
ESTHER GRETTON [00:44:53]:
So that time period varies. But if you can give an incentive to go, look, if you are ready to work with me to honour that and to get this ball rolling, I want to offer something of value to you. Should you buy in that time period. And that's where I think that you can bridge the gap of making the sell in the appropriate time, but still allowing that person to think about it. Because if they want to work with you, they will. And if they really want to work with you outside of that time period, and there's some really valid reasons for that, then that's your discretion, to honour that. But I think sometimes people back out of things, even if they really want to, for things that just might be their own limitations or challenges. And if there is an incentive that's of true value, that could be.
ESTHER GRETTON [00:45:40]:
That helps them make that decision to move forward.
Jessica Osborn [00:45:43]:
It's really smart. I think that, you know what I see a lot of the time because we're in decision fatigue and certainly in overload, is just the longer that we take to make that decision, the less likely we are to make it. So you just sort of, even though you were 100%, the longer you sit on that fence and not actually jump off, then you tend to kind of get stuck on the fence and it's that procrastination. So offering that time sensitive, you know, gift or additional incentive is actually like, well, I was already a yes, and now here's the reason why. I'm definitely getting down off the fence now, and I'm not going to think about what I need to think about over the next week because, you know, let's be honest, and I'm speaking from experience because I'm a classic over thinker at times, but, you know, when you've done, you probably can do all the thinking you need to do in less than 24 hours. And otherwise you go around in circles thinking the same thing again and again and leading yourself on that same thought process round and round and round until you're actually just really confused.
ESTHER GRETTON [00:46:43]:
And that can be what's happening.
Jessica Osborn [00:46:45]:
You know, so many people I speak to, they've had a great call. They're like, yeah, that person was a definite yes, but I haven't heard from them. I'm like, have you followed up? Because they're probably just sitting there in this, like, perpetual circle of overthinking, going round and round and round. That's creating procrastination. And sometimes they actually just need that person to reach out and to give them the lifeline to be like, hey, is there something, a question that you have that's really preventing you from taking that step forward? Can I help you with that? What can we do? And it's so interesting, I think, just that human behavior and the psychology around it, right?
ESTHER GRETTON [00:47:21]:
Yeah, and it's a fine balance, you know, psychology and human behavior, understanding humans and doing things that are going to be of value as opposed to understanding humans and doing things to push and manipulate. You want to be able to understand people and do things that are going to help them without pushing too much in a way that is coming across as manipulative. So I think I feel like that strikes a good balance in terms of honoring people's decision making processes. And if they're on the fence and they're like, you know what? Even that incentive that she's offered, it's not enough. It doesn't feel right to work with that person, or, I really don't need this right now. Then let it be great to chat with you, and I hope you get what you need. And best of luck, you don't want to convince everybody something that's going to help people who are really going to work with you. But yeah, they're overthinkers or they're trying to talk themselves out of it for reasons that aren't actually helpful for them and their business, whatever it might be.
ESTHER GRETTON [00:48:27]:
Exactly.
Jessica Osborn [00:48:28]:
Now, I did want to circle back to the fourth part of your framework, and I was hearing you say in that process, and talking about do the sale on the call or not was all about actually listening to their cues. So that's really is using some of that communication, right? Whether it's visual or verbal, taking it at their pace and what you can see happening there. So talk to me a bit more about the sort of communication that is required and what you mean when we say in communication because there's so much that can come into it.
ESTHER GRETTON [00:49:01]:
Yeah, there really is. Communication skills I find absolutely fascinating on so many areas of my life, not just business, but understanding how people communicate their ideas, how people have conversations is really. I could talk about this all day, every day podcast episode. So fascinating. There's so many areas to it. I think sometimes people feel that conversations are two people talking about things, whatever the topic is, but there's so much more to it than that. And I think what really comes across to me, especially right this point in time, there's so much around AI and technology and how amazing it is, and I'm totally on board. I love it.
ESTHER GRETTON [00:49:51]:
I love as much of that as that I can learn. And I'm married to a cyber security guy who's really into a lot of this stuff, so I get subjected to it whether I like it or not. But I think that the more that AI and technology is prevalent and used in business, the more that we need great communication skills as humans. So I was listening to a podcast recently that was talking about the women's Agenda report. And women's agenda are a body here in Australia that produce lots of helpful information. They've got a yearly report and it was talking about the top skills that they want emerging leaders and business owners to be having. And empathy and communication skills is right up there above having knowledge around AI and technology. The ability to have a really powerful conversation is life changing for business owners.
ESTHER GRETTON [00:50:48]:
And the ability to have communication skills that are integrity led, that meet the other person where they're at. And this is the biggest thing in communication. Often, as the experts that we are, we go into conversations way ahead or way to the side then where their ideal customer is at. And so straight away you're lost. A sales mentor and old boss of mine use this terminology, step in the river where they are. Where are they in their river and step into them with them where they are and move up to the river or to the side, wherever you're going together. That takes a lot of awareness in a conversation, right? So that's where good questions and asking powerful questions is going to help you figure out where they are. Where are they in their river, where are they at in their business and life and challenge.
ESTHER GRETTON [00:51:41]:
And it then helps you ask deeper questions here as opposed to further up the river where you've already lost them and they don't know what you're talking about or what's going on. So having awareness of where they are at, connect with them where they are, that's really powerful in communication. And this takes a lot of awareness and it takes a lot of stepping away from your own internal dialogue, which is the challenge, because people feel nervous and anxious. But when we're actually present with the person, we can see and feel and observe so much more than if we were stuck in our own nervous cycles internally. That information gives you so much for your conversation to have, but it also sends a really powerful message to the other person that you're a safe person to speak to. Because when you miss the awareness of where they're at and you talk way over down here or across here, that person on some level goes, they don't see me, they don't hear me, they don't understand me, I don't trust them. They're not consciously thinking that, or they might be, but that's what's happening on a subconscious level. There's this really great guy, Doctor Steven Porges, who has the polyvagal theory.
ESTHER GRETTON [00:52:56]:
And I have been nerding out big time on this space because it's powerful in sales conversations. The polyvagal theory is, and I'm not going to do a great job in articulating because I'm still in the early stages of learning about it. But it's effectively people, humans pick up so many cues from the other person, and those cues help you feel safe with somebody. So when you're having a sales conversation as the customer with somebody who is a dodgy salesperson, or what's happening on in your nervous system is you're picking up all of these safety cues that you feel, I don't feel safe with this person. And I don't mean like safe as in they're going to hurt you? I hope not. But safe as in I can't trust them. I'm not going to open up to them. They don't respect me.
ESTHER GRETTON [00:53:45]:
All of those things happen. So when you're having a conversation where you're picking up lots of cues of safety from the other person, your guard is coming down, you feel, oh, I could open up to this person, oh, she's listening to me. Oh, I trust her. She's actually providing something of value to me on this call. That's really helpful for me. I trust this person. Oh, she's listening to me again. She validated my experience.
ESTHER GRETTON [00:54:10]:
How good does it feel when someone validates your experiences? Right? All of those things in communication are part of this. What's happening in your body, your nervous system, your brain, and these are a lot of the time subconscious. So that's the wealth of information that conversation skills can have. It's just unlimited to help effectively, the other person feels safe to want to open up with you and talk and work with you and, you know, buy your services to help their business or their life.
Jessica Osborn [00:54:40]:
Oh, goodness. There's so much in that. It's amazing. And I know that we're literally just scratching the surface on it. Fascinating, isn't it? I love the different levels of communication and just how much, you know, you're gaining on that surface level, but there's so much going on on below the surface as well at any time. It's interesting. And then we don't also want to overthink it and be overwhelmed by it on a call. But like you said, I think everything we can learn can help us to get better at what we're doing and it to become natural.
Jessica Osborn [00:55:15]:
So you're not in your head as you said before, you're like, don't want to be in your head thinking about what you're going to say next. And that means you're not really listening, you're not really present, you're not really tuned in to all of those things are subliminal. But yes, the other person can really feel it when you're not actually there and present with them.
ESTHER GRETTON [00:55:32]:
Absolutely. And I think on that note, too, it just reminds me of some other sales training I had where they got to category. They wanted you to categorize your ideal clients in terms of their personality types. Were their personality type, were they an owl, were they a peacock? And you were going to sell to that person in this way and you're going to sell to that person in that way. And when you think about it by going into a sales call, thinking, okay, I've got to figure out what, what personality are and I'm going to sell to them that way straight away. That's disconnecting in the moment, isn't it? Because you're categorizing somebody, oh, she's very outgoing, so I'm going to sell to her like this. It's disconnecting in the moment. And I think, I think communication skills are incredibly simple and don't need to be categorized.
ESTHER GRETTON [00:56:17]:
It is purely about having awareness, listening, asking good questions, being present. All of that helps the other person feel safe. And then you've just got so much more room to have a really powerful conversation. Simple, hard at the, all the same time. That's why they're called communication skills. We have to build up skills to, you know, get better at things.
Jessica Osborn [00:56:39]:
Yeah, exactly. And when you have developed that those skills, they're just going to come across naturally. You're not going to need to be thinking about it. But, yeah, I love that you said, maybe we do that thinking outside of the actual time that you're on the call so that, you know, then you just go, right, I've got this. I understand all that information, but now I'm just going to show up and be present and just trust yourself to be able to incorporate it without overthinking it at the time.
ESTHER GRETTON [00:57:06]:
Yeah.
Jessica Osborn [00:57:06]:
One of the hardest things to do.
ESTHER GRETTON [00:57:08]:
It's challenging, but, you know, what you said was spot on. Practice communication skills with the people in your life, whether it's your kids, your partner, your friends, your mum, whatever. Next time you're in a conversation, ask questions and, you know, have that person talk. Really let them talk. It's a phrase called holding space. Hold space, particularly, oh, my gosh. Kids love it when you actually hold space for them to communicate or your partner and let them get everything off their chest, what they're saying, whether it's a lighthearted conversation or a deep one, it doesn't matter. And purely be present.
ESTHER GRETTON [00:57:46]:
Hold space. Listen. And then instead of jumping in with your thought on it, you can then validate their experience. Wow, it was really powerful that you said to me, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, and they go, oh, my gosh, she's listening. Oh, my gosh. Like, that person's validating my experience as opposed to me jumping in with my thoughts and views on what you've just said. Listen, validate, understand. Try it with your friends and family.
ESTHER GRETTON [00:58:13]:
Let me know, you know, find me on Instagram or whatever. Let me know how it goes, because it's really powerful and it helps you build the skills to go, wow, these are actually incredibly powerful skills, and they're just kind to people.
Jessica Osborn [00:58:25]:
Yes. You don't have to jump in with a solution and, yeah, don't jump in with me.
ESTHER GRETTON [00:58:33]:
Exactly. Listen. It is, part of me feels that what's helped me be so good in sales all these years is that I've been someone who's really good at listening and holding space. And I feel if I could teach that and a bit of a sales process around it, people would be great. But it's hard to do it. It really is. It takes quite a bit of awareness and it takes quite a bit of unpacking so much around communication that we've been taught to simple but challenging practice at home.
Jessica Osborn [00:59:02]:
First possible as well. Absolutely.
ESTHER GRETTON [00:59:05]:
Totally possible.
Jessica Osborn [00:59:06]:
Yeah.
ESTHER GRETTON [00:59:06]:
Yeah. I mean, just think of the times that you've had conversations with people who have done those things. They've listened, they've asked great questions, they've held space, they validated your experience. And it's so nice talking to those people, isn't it?
Jessica Osborn [00:59:20]:
Yes, absolutely. Have you ever helped someone who is like a lost cause in terms of, you know, I just can't even get on a call. I don't want to talk to people. I could never sell. Have you been able to help anybody like that?
ESTHER GRETTON [00:59:33]:
Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. One of my clients, she was selling via email for six years.
Jessica Osborn [00:59:39]:
Oh, wow.
ESTHER GRETTON [00:59:42]:
And she was selling it, you know, significantly priced service. So it wasn't just a quick, you know, low value offering that could be sold via a DM or an email quite easily. And she back and forth it on email for years and years and years, and it was so exhausting. And she was so great at what she did. She was shy and nervous about sales calls to the fact that she just didn't do them. And so when we met and met her at a business networking event and she became a client, she really understood. Oh, wow. There's a process to it, and I can be myself and I can use the values that I have as a person on a call.
ESTHER GRETTON [01:00:21]:
And she. It was uncomfortable like anything new is. But when she had a tailored to her structured, bespoke approach, she gave it a go, and that's how she sells now. And, yeah, her numbers went up through the roof in terms of what she was selling. Her client satisfaction went through the roof, too, because she was actually getting to know somebody on a call rather than email you not really knowing their personality, you can't ask them a lot of questions. And she just reduced all of that time by email. She's like, oh, my God, this is saving me a lot of energy and time as well. So, yeah, yeah, she's just someone that pops up to mine.
ESTHER GRETTON [01:00:59]:
But, yeah, I've helped plenty of people in that space because I think once they have that shift of, oh, I don't have to be that usually. Actually, the people who are like that actually have quite high integrity, so it's a relief for them to go, oh, okay.
Jessica Osborn [01:01:18]:
I don't have to give an all the way and become someone who I'm not.
ESTHER GRETTON [01:01:21]:
Yeah, yeah. Or do all these tactics that they see, you know, I've been following or watching a few Instagram accounts of, like, some real typical sales bros over in the US, and I'm like, oh, my gosh. Oh, they're just so bad that no wonder people will shy away from selling, you know, selling with integrity, especially if you want to attract people who also have integrity, is the way to go.
Jessica Osborn [01:01:45]:
Yeah, absolutely. And I'm sure that the others can attract each other and they can go off into their own little world.
ESTHER GRETTON [01:01:51]:
Exactly. Exactly. Let them be.
Jessica Osborn [01:01:56]:
Do you have any one final takeaway or anything that you wanted to share with anyone listening today who's been following along and loving what we're talking about? Is there anything that you feel we've left on the table that you've.
ESTHER GRETTON [01:02:10]:
I think that if you are, if you're a service based business owner and you're running a business and you've got clients and you're delivering a great service and offering to people, first of all, well done. Like, how good is that? There's so many people wanting and dreaming and hoping and you're out there doing it. So first of all, kudos to you. And second of all, if you're out there doing it and you're feeling like sales is tricky, the biggest shift, knowing that integrity is actually the foundation for a good sales conversation can often be a feeling of relief. So I just want to leave people with the feeling that to be good at selling is to have high integrity and to respect someone. And if you hear that and you feel relief, then I'm really glad that you feel like that because that's how it should be.
Jessica Osborn [01:03:02]:
Yeah, absolutely. And yes, I think there's someone there with a problem that they can't solve and they're looking someone to help them. And if you can help them, why wouldn't you want to? You know, that's what you're there to do. Right. So it's actually just helping that person to take a step forward if the fit is right and there's nothing gross or icky or yuck about that, that's actually like, they want the help. That's why they're on the call in the first place.
ESTHER GRETTON [01:03:29]:
Exactly. Yeah. Help them with what you've got. And if you feel in that self order space that we talked about way at the start of the call, if you feel like there's missing pieces, then work on that, and that's going to help you come around to realigning to having integrity with what it is that you're doing. So.
Jessica Osborn [01:03:48]:
Good. Thank you, Esther. Now, if anyone wants to connect with you and learn more about what you do and even just follow along with some more of your amazing value that you give, where would be the best place for them to find you?
ESTHER GRETTON [01:04:01]:
Yeah. So I am on Instagram, on the handle. Esther Gretton. Esther Breton. And I've got my own website. Esther gretten.com. e S T H e R g r e t o n. How many times in our life we rattle off the spelling of our name and I have a 30 minutes free sales strategy session that people can get on a call with me and we can unpack some of what we've spoken about today.
ESTHER GRETTON [01:04:29]:
And you'll experience my selling process, which people are like, wonder how a sales coach sells. So if you want to experience that, you're welcome to. And if I've got something of value to you, I'll offer that to you at the end of the call. And if not, then I'll redirect you to somebody who can help you. But, yeah, if sales is a challenge or if it's just feeling ick or it takes you a lot of energy, a lot of times people invest so much energy in selling because they're not doing in a way that's aligned with their integrity. If you want to sell with more ease and not let it take over so much of your emotional space or capital, then, yeah, get in touch, and I'd love to be able to help you.
Jessica Osborn [01:05:10]:
Brilliant. Well, thank you so much for sharing that, Esther, and for offering as well, because what a great thing to actually be able to come and experience it yourself and to just sort of see what the difference is of so much value. So thank you for that.
ESTHER GRETTON [01:05:25]:
Thank you. And can I also thank you, because it was about a year ago when I was having a little baby in my arms and knowing, okay, it's time for me to get my stuff out there and up there and out there soon, because I'll be soon going off to care. And I've got a bunch of clients, and I had some contract work that I left from Melbourne when I moved to Brisbane. And I reached out to you, and you were the one that helped me really niche down on this sales space. So I want to thank you for doing that and helping with that, too. And for anyone out there who needs help with niching, Jessica is your lady. So thank you so much for your help on that too. I really appreciate it.
Jessica Osborn [01:06:04]:
Oh, that's amazing. I'm so glad that I was able to help you and just seeing you. This is your jam. Like, you literally, this is what you live and breathe, what you're really great at. And it's so funny when the thing is right there in front of us, it's part of us, and yet it can feel like, why is this not clear where I should be focusing my business on. And I love, that's why I love helping people, because I'm like, we get to bring out the real essence of you and help you stand in that space. You clearly know your stuff.
ESTHER GRETTON [01:06:34]:
Thank you.
Jessica Osborn [01:06:35]:
Anyone who's still listening has clearly also got to that conclusion by now, because just of the value that you shared today, and I know that that's only the surface, we've literally scratched little pieces here and there. But Esther is an absolute mine of information and knowledge and strategy around selling and doing it in the right way, which to me, 100% aligns with how I like to look at business as well. So I appreciate your time and sharing all of that with us today. Thank you.
ESTHER GRETTON [01:07:08]:
Yeah, thank you so much, Jessica. I appreciate your time too.
Jessica Osborn [01:07:12]:
Awesome. And we'll talk soon.
ESTHER GRETTON [01:07:13]:
Thanks, Esther. Okay, take care. See you soon. Bye.
Jessica Osborn [01:07:16]:
Isn't it just so frustrating when you know that out there, there are so many people that actually need your help and there's many actively looking for somebody just like you, yet all you seem to attract the odd tie kicker or really uncommitted client that's kind of dabbling and they don't light you up. They really don't get great results. And you're thinking, what does it actually take to attract clients who are committed, who are happy to pay proper prices for what it is that I do and that I can help to have really great results. What is it going to take? Well, it's not in the activity of what you're doing. Here's the thing. It's usually something else that's a bit deeper, and I'm sharing with you what that is. In my training, it's called five keys to premium paying clients, and I'm going to share with you what are these five things that you need to have in your strategy so that no matter what tactic or activity you choose to do, it actually works like it works. You attract the right clients, the ones who are ready to work with you, the rounded ones who are ready to pay and sign up.
Jessica Osborn [01:08:27]:
So get yourself over to my website now on jessicaosborne.com tmf. Register for this free class and let's dive right in. So once again, that's jessicaosborne.com TMF and the link is below in the show notes as well. I encourage you to register now. Allocate just over an hour of your time, maybe up to an hour and a half, so you can take some notes and really reflect on the things that I share with you in this class. And let's change your year this year. Let's make your business actually turn into your dream business together.
