Jessica Osborn [00:00:00]:
You're listening to she's the business podcast. Do you know that the most underutilized piece of marketing across the board that most businesses are not doing or using enough of is the simple case study? Now, I say simple, but actually a case study is so valuable, it is like absolute marketing gold.
Cathy Camera [00:00:22]:
Why?
Jessica Osborn [00:00:22]:
Because you are the hero of the story. Because someone else is telling the story and you can be the hero of it, which is absolutely incredible. And there's been so many sales, conversions, contracts signed and made simply off the back of a really great case study. So if that's not reason enough to listen into this episode all about how to have better case studies and what they are and how to use them, what should go into them, then I don't know what else is. So please stay tuned because we're coming right up with all of that amazing content for you.
Jessica Osborn [00:01:02]:
Hi, I'm your host, Jessica Osborne, and over the last 25 years in marketing and business, I've helped many brands to launch, scale, and grow, with some of them becoming multi billion dollar companies. I'm here to inspire you to get out of your own way and create a profitable, fulfilling business while living the lifestyle you really desire without all the hustle. So I bring you she's the business podcast. A unique blend of strategies, tactics, mindset, health and spirituality. Literally every everything you need to be the successful leader of your dream business. Made by women for women. This is your weekly dose of motivation and inspiration.
Jessica Osborn [00:01:48]:
My very special guest today is Cathy Cameron, who's known as the construction copywriter. So she's a specialist writer and content creator for the construction industry, primarily, really helping them to position themselves as experts and attract more clients, have more wins on those project bids, but also just to market their business better through their website and create the sort of content that attracts clients to them. So without further ado, let me play this interview for you, where Kathy and I are discussing the value and benefit and everything that goes into powerful case studies. Cool. So I'm here with Cathy Camera, who is the construction copywriter is what she's known as in and around the books these days. So welcome, Cathy. So great to have you here with us on she's a business podcast.
Cathy Camera [00:02:46]:
Thank you, Jessica. Thank you for having me. I'm a longtime listener of your podcast. So great to finally meet you and be on, on the podcast.
Jessica Osborn [00:02:55]:
Yes, I know. I love seeing your stories when you post little pictures of where you are when you're listening. It's been amazing, and it's so good to connect. Absolutely. And we're here to talk today a bit about case studies and why they're a really important marketing tool. I think so many people underutilize. So we've got so much I think we can dive into on this topic. But before we do, why don't you tell everyone a bit more about exactly who you help in your business and what it is that you do?
Cathy Camera [00:03:24]:
So I'm known as the construction copywriter, and I basically help anyone in the industry to have content written for them, for their marketing. So it could be anyone from a small tradesperson who has their own business all the way up to larger companies, civil engineers, water engineers, that sort of thing. So basically, anyone needing content to get their marketing going and to position themselves as thought leaders in the industry.
Jessica Osborn [00:03:53]:
Yeah. Now, you've touched on a couple of really important points as to why you would want to have a case study, but can you expand on that a little bit more? You know, why do you think case studies are so important? Like, what is the real gold in using case studies as part of your marketing?
Cathy Camera [00:04:10]:
Yeah, as you mentioned before, I think they're really underutilized, but I think they're gold in terms of marketing because they really hero your brand and showcase what you can do and you like a case study involves other people talking about your brand as well. So I always say there's a big difference between you saying you can do something really well and someone else singing your praises. So a case study really highlights your work, highlights your success, puts it out there into the world, and really shines a light on all the good things you can do through. And it doesn't have to be a service, it can be a product as well that you're highlighting. So, yeah, it just, it's a great way to hero your brand, win over clients, you know, get people over the line when they're considering hiring you. It's just a great piece of social proof. Like, it's gold. It's social proof.
Jessica Osborn [00:05:06]:
Yeah, absolutely. And I think that's so important, actually, what you mentioned about. It's a way that you can hero your brand in your business because it's nothing you telling the story, it's actually your client telling the story. And that's the huge difference between, you know, you telling your own story. You know, we always say in storytelling, well, you're never the hero of your own story. You know, the person is, the audience is. And in this case, because your client is telling the story, you're able to kind of be the hero of the story, which is amazing.
Cathy Camera [00:05:37]:
So yeah, I liken it to pr. And I think, you know, when you want a great pr piece written about your business, you know, you have to sort of find the right publication. You have to pitch to them. You have to get your piece written, or you have to appear live on television or whatever to spruik your business. But case studies are a way that you can do it yourself. Like, you can control it, write or have filmed as many as you want and use them in a variety of ways. So they're really great value. And, you know, it's your own pr system.
Jessica Osborn [00:06:11]:
Absolutely. There's so many places I want to take this now, but I think let's start off with a question that you may not be expecting, because I want to ask, does anyone argue against case studies? Like, is there someone out there who's saying, well, no, I don't actually believe that case studies are a good use of my time or of value or worth it. Is there anybody out there saying that? Because do we need to even address why we should be doing it?
Cathy Camera [00:06:41]:
Yeah, I don't think anyone is against case studies, but I don't think enough people consider them. Like, it's just sometimes not in their sphere of, like, thinking about marketing. Like, you think of marketing and you think of, like, Facebook ads and you think of blogs and you think of, I don't know, marketing campaigns and things like that. And people don't consider case studies. You know, I, like, I don't know, I think overseas they might be a lot bigger. Like, I look at the american market and a lot of them use case studies, whereas here I don't feel like they're utilized enough. Or when they are utilized, they aren't utilized fully. So some people might have them, you know, on a page on their website, but that might be the only way they're using them.
Cathy Camera [00:07:26]:
Whereas, you know, there are so many ways you can use that one piece of content. So that's what I'm trying to sort of, you know, blast out to people. They're a really great value piece of marketing. Like, you can do a lot with them.
Jessica Osborn [00:07:42]:
Yeah. What do you think the reason behind people not choosing to use them, even though, as you said, you're like, okay, we think we're all on the same page, that they are a great thing to have and they're valuable. But, you know, as you said, and I've certainly seen this as well, in my experience, I used to work for an engineering firm as well, by the way, so very familiar with the construction industry and how powerful the right testimonials and case studies are, we certainly did a lot of work on developing them. But yes, it's not, it's not necessarily easy. So I wanted to kind of understand, what do you think are the main reasons why people are choosing not to use them, even though they know deep down that this is a really good thing to have.
Cathy Camera [00:08:28]:
Yeah, I think that's the stumbling block. Like, it's not easy. Like, as a writer, I write them all the time. So for me it's simple. But for a person who is running a business, they have to, you know, first of all, identify who would make or what project would make a good case study. Then they have to sit down and gather all the information. They have to interview people. And not everyone's an interviewer.
Cathy Camera [00:08:51]:
Like, not everyone has that skill. And then they have to sort through all the information and put it all together, like virtually as a feature article, like the longer type. So it gets put aside. Like, we need case studies, but I. Who's going to do it? How do we start? Where do we start? You know, who are we going to give this to? Because it's not something a business owner, you know, finds natural. Like, you know, to do all of that, there's a lot involved. For me, feels easy because I do it all the time. It's my job.
Cathy Camera [00:09:21]:
But for a business owner who is building buildings or, you know, doing whatever, you know, this isn't their sphere of expertise. So, yeah, I think that's where the stumbling block comes in. Like just getting started and going through.
Jessica Osborn [00:09:35]:
The process, it can be tricky because, you know, you are requiring something from somebody else. And, you know, I think that for me, that was always the first thing was like, well, what's in it for them? Right? Because why would that client invest that time and energy into helping you create this case study unless they're seeing a benefit in it for them? And I think that that's probably, you know, a tip if you are struggling to get testimonials of case studies, is to think, well, what is it from their point of view? How are they actually going to benefit or gain from it? And that's probably the first thing to get them buy in because, as you said, it takes a bit of effort, but they actually do have to put in a little bit of time to give you the story, give you the data. So it is like something you're not going to do. So I think in high volume of, because each one needs so much input, but like you say, just so valuable once you have them, because you can use them in so many places. So it's a strategic. Yeah.
Cathy Camera [00:10:40]:
So you wouldn't have every project be a case study like that defeats the purpose. You want to highlight the ones that are extraordinarily successful or showcased a particular product or maybe a particular process or a particular skill that your company, you know, has within its team. So you have to find the right person. You have. They have to be willing to speak to you or to your case study writer to be interviewed. I usually say, you know, that only takes a short amount of time, like a 15 minutes, 20 minutes interview, and I can get the information I need from them. But that's where it comes back to skill as well, making the other person feel comfortable. Not calling it an interview.
Cathy Camera [00:11:25]:
I call it a chat, like, to make it, you know, it's more relaxed. It's just having a chat about the project, just getting your opinion on, you know, how you found the process, what the results were for you, and so forth. So making the other person feel comfortable is a big part of it. And then in terms of what they get out of it, it depends on the business. Sometimes it might be just an individual and they just might be honored to be featured. You know, have their house featured or, you know, like they're proud of the thing that they've received, so they want to show that off. So that's a big deal to them. If it's another company, they're getting some publicity as well.
Cathy Camera [00:12:02]:
So they're getting free content out there that they can share on their socials and so forth, you know, where always all looking for content. So you're giving them that as well. So there are benefits for the other person as well.
Jessica Osborn [00:12:16]:
Yeah, absolutely. And I think, you know, one of the questions I wanted to ask you, because I think you've already alluded to this, is that there's a big difference between a case study and a really great case study. And I'm thinking maybe the first question for me to use now, what are the kinds of questions that you might ask or what are the things that you need to make sure you absolutely get from them so that you can put it into a good case study that actually has a power behind it? Yes, that's one question. And then I want to go into, like, what is that difference between the case study that's, you know, here's a story that someone's done, and here's a case study that actually really sells your business for you because I see a massive difference between the two of them.
Cathy Camera [00:13:02]:
So you need a really strong project or service or whatever it is that you're highlighting. And then, like, I start with interviewing the business owner in terms of writing a case study, so I get all the facts from them. Like, you know, what was the brief? What happened? Were there any problems? You know, what was the process? How did we get to the end? What was the end result? And then interviewing the person. It's the really, really strong case studies are the ones where you get those gold testimonials where the people are just like, they love you, they love your brain, they love what you've done for them and give you, like, an amazing testimonial. Because sometimes when you ask people for a testimonial at the end of a project, they just sort of give you like a watered down, like, oh, yeah, it was excellent, whatever. But, you know, like, it doesn't. When they're in the midst of talking about their project and they're taken back to the process and they're feeling what they felt at the time and they're feeling the results of, you know, of the outcome, then they give you better words. They give you better testimonials.
Jessica Osborn [00:14:08]:
Yeah.
Cathy Camera [00:14:08]:
So that's the key thing in a strong test, in a strong case study. And also if they have statistics, either the owner or the client, if there are statistics to show how much the service improved their business, like, that's really strong. Like, that's, you know, data is a really strong selling point with others when they're reading the case study. So if you can demonstrate, for example, if you're a, you know, if you help people with Facebook ads and, you know, demonstrate much turnover they got from your work on their ads, then that's a big selling point for you. So data is a, is a big one.
Jessica Osborn [00:14:48]:
Yeah. I love that you mentioned those two things because I do see, and it might be a difference in just sometimes the type of person, but you can get some lovely people sending you comments and it's all like, oh, you know, we work together so well and it was such a pleasure, and it's all kind of fluffy and emotional, which is lovely, but it's like for someone else reading that, you know, they're going, okay, so it was great. But why was it great? What was actually what happened? And I think that the data, you know, I certainly find maybe especially more with females, I think, are kind of less numbers driven just naturally, but don't tend to kind of think straight away of the numbers. And so it's like drawing out that, okay, well, what did that actually mean? Like, find where there's a piece of data that really shows the impact, and you might have to do a bit of digging. Right. To find where that really good, really strong number comes from.
Cathy Camera [00:15:45]:
It's really getting into the nitty gritty of the project. There's another case study writer in America that I follow, and I quoted her from a podcast, and she said, testimonials are like the highlights real of a movie, whereas a case study is the full length film. So that just gives you an idea. That's when you delve into everything. You. You have all the characters, you have the whole story, the problem, the solution, you know, the happy ending. So, yeah, it's more complete. So as a piece of social proof, a testimonial is absolutely great.
Cathy Camera [00:16:22]:
I can definitely collect those. But a case study just delves deeper and goes into the nitty gritty of it and gives you all the details, and especially when you have a higher ticket item. I think case studies are really important because I know myself when I've invested in courses, you know, that are more expensive for my business. You know, I looked at that sales page for over a year. I've read case studies. I've read all the testimonials. I've followed people who've done the course, like, I really want all the information before I give over my money, you know, to share, have this service. So in my industry, you know, with building and, you know, this is big money, and for people, you know, it might be the largest investment they ever make.
Cathy Camera [00:17:06]:
So they want to be sure that, you know, they're choosing the right person. And a case study goes a long way to reassuring them and helping them make that decision.
Jessica Osborn [00:17:16]:
Yeah, you're so right because you've just touched on, I think, you know, the elements that go into the case study being, you know, what was the situation at the beginning? Like the problem, then how did they resolve it? What was that solution? And then what's the outcome? Because it's like, actually what was then the end result. So it's not just the solution that you're providing, but, you know, then how is it now in the, in the new world that you're in now? It's all been done. And I think that, that, you know, like, you, I love that analogy of a testimonial versus a case study, because when you are being able to give that full story, people can relate to being in that problem zone. They're like, oh, that's just exactly like me, or I'm struggling with that, too. I'm there and, wow. So, you know, they're suddenly really invested in the story because they're seeing themselves in that same problem area. And then to be able to show how the solution worked, maybe there were some surprises in there. Maybe there was, like, didn't know that this was going to work.
Jessica Osborn [00:18:16]:
And, wow, like, it didn't even work the same way I thought it would, but the results are incredible. Like, that's so powerful to be able to tell those kind of stories and help people to see themselves, isn't it?
Cathy Camera [00:18:28]:
Yeah, very powerful. And that's like, and that's the basic format. Even though, you know, you can write case studies in different ways or have them in different formats, it follows that. They usually follow that structure, like introducing the characters, you know, problem solution, and, you know, the outcome. So, like, it's a pretty straightforward structure in terms of that. But then you can have, you know, a lot of people will write really short ones. Often when they're writing their own, they'll have, like, those little paragraph ones on their websites or whatever where, you know, it's very brief. This was our brief.
Cathy Camera [00:19:02]:
This is what we did. This was the result. Then you have the feature length ones where, you know, you're interviewing people, you're adding all the detail a lot more into it. And then the third type that some people have are video ones, and that's another skill set. So a lot of people wouldn't be able to do their own of that unless they're videographers or, you know, good at editing. But yeah, they might interview a client and ask them questions. And, you know, we all know video is very powerful. So that's another way to introduce case studies.
Jessica Osborn [00:19:35]:
Yes. Right. So just thinking about that, you can take this one kind of case study and then turn it into many, many different formats. Because I'm guessing if you're thinking like, this is the project from the beginning, I can write it up, but while I'm interviewing someone, we could also have the camera on and be capturing video, potentially, maybe be able to put it together with someone who has the skills of that, but then also taking out some grabs or really condensing it down to, like, the key points. So, like, what is that one sentence, each type of thing?
Cathy Camera [00:20:09]:
Yeah, that's why I think it's just marketing gold, because you can do so much with this one piece of, of content. Like you say, you can draw out snippets of it, share that on social media, lead people back, you know, to the actual case study. You can have a dedicated page on your website, where you house all your case studies, you could have your case studies as part of a sales page. If you're selling a particular service or product, you can. A lot of people attach them to quotes. So like we are saying it gets people over the line and it convinces them, you know, if someone has a similar problem and you attach a case study that demonstrates that you were able to do that sort of work, that, you know, that's a selling point. So sending it off with a quote is helpful. What else? There are so many ways you can add them to capability statements.
Cathy Camera [00:20:58]:
I write those as well. Just the, yeah, just endless. Like, I even say that, like, most of them are success stories. But I've also suggested that even a project that maybe didn't turn out the way you wanted could be written up as a case study and used internally as an education piece. So, you know, that's another way to think about, you know, yes, it could have been a disaster, but you could present that to your staff to show that, you know, look, this is what happened, this is what went wrong. This is what we want to avoid in future. You know, we've learned this from this, you know.
Jessica Osborn [00:21:35]:
Yeah.
Cathy Camera [00:21:36]:
So there are just, yeah, so many ways to use them in newsletters, part of an email sequence, like, you know. Yeah, just so many ways you can use this one piece of content. So that's why I think they're really valuable and I think if more people tap into them, like they're, you know, they're not only going to be hero in their own brand, but they're going to have content that they can share. You know, we're always struggling to find content, but, you know, you're going to have heaps of content with just this one piece because you can break it up, like you said, share it, share pieces of it, attach it to things. Yeah.
Jessica Osborn [00:22:11]:
Just when you're looking at, let's say, you know, you had a client and they haven't really done any case studies, but they've got lots of projects and, you know, you're sitting down with them to decide, okay, well, what are the case studies we're going to do? What are the sort of criteria that you might look at to pick out and decide which ones would be good for them to invest in? Like invest that time and effort into creating the case study.
Cathy Camera [00:22:38]:
So I usually like when they're sharing with the public, you know, obviously a successful one, look at their bigger projects, sometimes ones that involved a lot of collaboration even with other people or were high, like high value projects. I asked them to pick one that where they played an integral role in getting the results. So, you know, you didn't just come in and do, like some little job on the side. Like, you are an integral part of the success of that project. With people who offer different services, like often people in construction, they might, I don't know, offer civil engineering, and then they might do something else, like completely different services. When they're choosing projects for their case studies, I ask them to consider like a variety. So don't make all your case studies about the one service. Make sure you're covering your different services.
Cathy Camera [00:23:36]:
So showing, you know, the breadth of your expertise. Yeah. So, yeah, there's a lot to consider. Also consider who you might want to interview for it, who's going to be receptive to that. Like, not everybody wants to be interviewed. I've only had probably one, one case. It was a counsel person, and they didn't return calls, didn't return emails, even though the business had already contacted them. And so that just fell by the wayside.
Cathy Camera [00:24:04]:
We didn't do that case study because we didn't have one of the main people in it wanting to be in it. So that's the key factor. Yeah. So I think they're the main things, like a successful project that you were, you know, a key part of and that other people are willing to be interviewed for. I mean, you can write case studies that don't involve other people, that, you know, where you're just the central part, but they're strengthened when you have other people telling your story, like we've discussed, because other people's testimony is stronger than your own, like, you know, blowing your own trumpet.
Jessica Osborn [00:24:39]:
Yeah.
Cathy Camera [00:24:40]:
You know. Yeah.
Jessica Osborn [00:24:42]:
Now I've got a question for you, because I think that this would probably be across the board, you know, no matter what sort of business you have, if you're reaching out to other business owners, more so than, or maybe even with people, if it's a person. But do you ever find that they're a bit hesitant to maybe share some of the data that they might feel is quite kind of personal or they might feel nervous about sharing, you know, especially if there's money involved? And what do you do in those situations? And how do you get a cause, as you just said before, to have a testimonial that's real gold. It's gotta have some data or stats so that it really highlights what this work was or what the client experienced, the transformation, the result, you need some kind of data there, as well as the soft, touchy feely stuff. So if they're struggling with that, what do you do to help to get something that they do feel comfortable with so that you can have a test and, you know, a case study that is of value?
Cathy Camera [00:25:51]:
Luckily, I haven't come across anyone who hasn't been willing to share those sort of things like most companies are. Okay. I have read, though, of times when other people have faced that problem, you can share data anonymously, like, so you might have a part of your case study where you have data, you know, X company did this. Obviously, it's not as strong as putting a name to it and a business, you know, we always know that putting a real name to something just adds to its legitimacy because otherwise people might think you've made it up. But if you've got the rest of the case study written strongly, you could introduce figures, perhaps in an anonymous way to sort of get over that. But as I said, most people are happy to introduce them. You don't have to be exact with your, like, if it's a figure thing, you know, you can round it off. You don't have to, you know, or you can say above this amount, or, you know, or you could sell it as a percentage so you don't have to give the exact figure.
Cathy Camera [00:26:52]:
So that's a way to not, you know, give out all the details of what you've made on the project or whatever, but still indicate how successful it was. So, yeah, just little things like that.
Jessica Osborn [00:27:03]:
But, yeah, that's amazing. I love that. I think the percentage one is such an easy one to really be able to still share the power of it without sharing something that might feel too confidential or personal. And certainly I've worked in government as well, and I know that there's always a, you know, a fair bit of red tape around what you're going to say or not say. And you do have to toe the line with all of those things.
Cathy Camera [00:27:28]:
So that's the other thing now that you mentioned that, like, some companies have like a hierarchy. So you might have to go through, like, you might need to be prepared to have your case study sort of go through legals and go through, you know, the CEO and everyone has to read it and, you know, check off on it and, you know, make sure that it's a okay to go out into the world. So that's another consideration when you're choosing projects. How do difficult is it to get it over the line, you know, but that all comes back to the project. What you're talking about, you know, the type of business and so forth, but so true.
Jessica Osborn [00:28:01]:
And I think, you know, in those cases, it's like weighing up your time, investment and the effort versus the benefit of having it. So while some of those larger companies, you might have to jump through many hoops and it might take a long time because it needs to be approved by the legal department and they probably going to ask you to change some things in there and all of that. At the end of the day, though, if that one is so worth having because it's such a huge and powerful story, then I think we've got to take that time into account and not be so immediate with everything and think this is something you turn around in a matter of a couple of days. It's not. It's like when you're going, well, I'm going to create a website. I'm not just going to stick one up today with a few words on there, although I can. It's not going to be the best sort of website. It's probably not going to be worth my effort and I want to replace it again next week with something else.
Jessica Osborn [00:28:56]:
So it's like, you know, I think that's the same thing, right? With case studies is thinking about it as more of a longer term strategy. Once you have this piece, you can use it for years. It's worthwhile spending weeks or even a couple of months, whatever it takes to, to put it together and to actually make it a really powerful one because then you don't need as many because you can use it everywhere.
Cathy Camera [00:29:20]:
And I love that you use the word strategy. Like all marketing, I think, needs to come back to that. Too many people are just producing content without thinking about the reason for producing it or what they want to do with it. So with case studies, you know, think about how you're going to use the case study, why you want that particular case study. Like, what do you want to showcase? And then make sure your case studies, you know, however many you are creating are covering that. Like I've written, like we've spoken about products and services, but I've also written for an engineering company where I've written case studies on individual engineers. So I've highlighted, you know, their skills, added some personality to them, you know, found out about what they do in their spare time and they put these out in the world. And that has the effect of, you know, giving their, their business personality by introducing the faces behind the work, but also highlighting the specialty skills that their company possesses within their team.
Cathy Camera [00:30:23]:
So when clients are looking to hire someone and they see a case study and they see a person who has the skills that they need. And, you know, we've highlighted projects they've worked on so they can see the results of those skills. That's a huge selling point. Rather than just going to a website or choosing an engineer. And I don't really know, you know, what skills the team has or.
Jessica Osborn [00:30:45]:
Yeah. Who does that? Well, the company did that, but who worked on that? The same people who are going to work on my one. Yes.
Cathy Camera [00:30:52]:
So that's another way that you can use case studies. Highlight your team. If you've got someone brilliant on your team that can do something special and something out of the ordinary, then why not highlight them and put it out there on social media? Because you will attract then the type of clients that will suit you and that your business wants. So that's a big one for me too. Yeah.
Jessica Osborn [00:31:16]:
Yeah. That's such good advice there. Now, are there anything that you would say would be the biggest mistakes that just do not do when it comes to case studies? Here's what to avoid. Are there any of those, um, faux powers that come to mind?
Cathy Camera [00:31:32]:
Well, this is going to sound so serving, but like, I, like, I encourage people to write their own if they can. Like, I even have like a free resource. Write your own case studies. It's geared towards people in construction, but other people could get, you know, use out of it. And in that document, in that resource, I go through how to write, you know, what, you know, sort of little tips, tips and things to do. But if you don't have, I don't know, the want, the desire to write or the skill of writing, like, not everyone's a writer. Like, you know, some people think they are because everyone writes. But actually writing a case study or a form of content takes some experience.
Cathy Camera [00:32:17]:
So if you haven't got that skill, I mean, you could give it a go. But if you feel like you're not drawing all the information together and you're not producing something that feels right, that looks right, then, like, I'd say, you know, hire someone to do it like that. You know, we all, like, none of us are skilled in everything. Like, you know, I'll hire someone to do ads or I'll hire, you know, someone to do my accounting because, you know, numbers are not my thing. So if it's not your zone of genius, then outsource it like that. That would be the biggest thing, I think, because you want to make the most out of it. You want to get the most out of it.
Jessica Osborn [00:32:56]:
And can you spot the difference when someone's sort of done one themselves versus.
Cathy Camera [00:33:01]:
Had someone and like, even the smaller ones sometimes on websites, you see, like, that's the other thing. If you're writing like the short form ones, like, and you have them on your site and they're all in different formats and they're nothing uniform and they're all disjointed, maybe they've been written by different people or and stuck on the side. And I sort of like, look at them and go like, I just want to fix it. You just want to help people. You just want to get them a good result. So if you're going to write, spend the time writing a piece of content, you want to make sure you get something at the end of it, like be able to use it. You don't want to sort of bury it and be embarrassed by it. So.
Cathy Camera [00:33:39]:
Yeah.
Jessica Osborn [00:33:40]:
Yes, very, very wise. Thank you. I think this has been such a great discussion. You know, I don't think anyone could sort of still be on the fence that case studies are not worth their time and effort because, you know, with talking about being strategic with your content and this is the type of content that isn't just made and then gone again in a couple of days time, you know, even though you can always repurpose, social media, like this is actually giving you something to put on your social media and you can put it on again and again. So plus it's on your website and it's something you can use wherever, like you said, so many different places. I think I'm all for always leveraging your time and spending your time on things that give you bang for your buck. Not just today, the day you're doing it, but ongoing. It actually grows the longer that time goes on.
Jessica Osborn [00:34:33]:
That is really smart type of marketing. So thank you for sharing so much about it and sharing all of those tips. I think if you go back and listen to the episode again, you know, you'll see what is the basic structure of a case study, some of the tips, what to include, what are the type of things we want to get out of the person who we're interviewing so that you can put it into their own words. And that's the trick actually, is you're writing it for them. Like you're not asking the client to write it. That's not their role. Like as Kathy said, I don't know whether we can't pulled that out really. But, you know, you mentioned you interview them.
Jessica Osborn [00:35:07]:
It's because you don't ask a client to write a case study for you. You, like, you write it for them, but you want to use all their words and.
Cathy Camera [00:35:14]:
Yeah, that's one of the best things. Like, they don't have to give me a lot of their time. Like when they decide they want a case study, they just have to give me like a ten minute interview telling me the basics of their project. And then I draw all that information out of the client, they tell the story and then I put it into words. So it's not a time consuming exercise for the business owner or for the client, because that interview doesn't take long either. I, like, I'm the one doing the work. Like, they just have to give me a bit of information and then I can go away and create.
Jessica Osborn [00:35:48]:
Yeah, exactly. And I think it's like, it's just the data. I think that's to me, the only thing that, that takes. Sometimes it depends on the company and how easy it is to access your data and if you've got at all a handle on it, but, you know, finding your data so that you can present what the before and after was, I think that's probably the only real thing that you look at and try to find behind the scenes. But you've got this resource that you've mentioned. You just slipped in that mansion there, I thought, ah, so there is a resource helping you to write a case study. You said it kind of takes you through the different sections and some tips on what to do. So where do people, if they really want to have a go at doing this themselves? You know, there's plenty of us who definitely can write but might just need some help with, well, what do you do? Have a go at it.
Jessica Osborn [00:36:41]:
So where do they find it?
Cathy Camera [00:36:42]:
Yep. So that's on my website, which is Kathy camera, like a photocamera.com dot au. And it's under, I have a navigation heading saying free resources so you can find it under there.
Jessica Osborn [00:36:57]:
Amazing. And I'm sure that would be wonderful. And then anybody who's using it and thinks, oh, this is actually, you know, it's hard, or I don't, maybe it's just I don't have the time to invest in doing this myself. Because you want to do a good job on it, then it's absolutely the type of thing that's such a great thing to outsource and.
Cathy Camera [00:37:17]:
Yeah, and I'm open to, like, I occasionally write for other industries. Like, not often. Like, my main clients are the construction industry. You know, they make up 99% of my clients. But occasionally I do take on other websites, other work. So if you're really stuck and, you know, you want my help, you know, just drop me a DM or whatever. And yeah, if I can't help you, I can pass you on to someone else. I have a.
Cathy Camera [00:37:43]:
A lot of colleagues in the industry, so, yeah, I'll find the perfect person for you.
Jessica Osborn [00:37:48]:
Oh, that's so great. Thank you, Cathy. I think that always takes away so much time and effort, isn't it? Like, even just finding the right person. So that's amazing. If someone wants to connect with you on your social media and just get in touch and, you know, learn a bit more from you online, where's the best place for them to do that?
Cathy Camera [00:38:06]:
Yeah, my two main channels are Instagram, so you can just look up Kathy camera rider and over on LinkedIn under Cathy Cameron. Yeah, so you can find me on both of those platforms. They're where I'm most active.
Jessica Osborn [00:38:20]:
So, yeah, brilliant. Well, we will hook all of that up in the show notes so you can find her free resource on writing your own case studies and her social media links and Cathy's website as well, right there in the show notes. So please go and connect with her and we'd love to hear what you've enjoyed from this episode. So if you are listening right now, you could take a lead from Kathy. She often does a little screenshot of the episode and a photo of where she is right now and post it up on her stories. And it's so fun to receive those when she's out walking in the morning and listening to. She's the business podcast, so we would love it if you did that and tagged both of us as well. So that would be amazing.
Jessica Osborn [00:39:02]:
Thank you so much for your time today, Cathy, and we will talk soon.
Jessica Osborn [00:39:06]:
Now, if I asked you, do you know who your ideal customer is? More than likely you're going to answer, yes, of course I do. Or at least I know enough about them to market to them. Or do you? You see, the number one reason why most audiences aren't converting into buyers, or even if you're having trouble building an audience in the first place, is simply because you haven't gone deep enough to understand who it is, exactly who you speak to. There's no connection being made there, and therefore those people aren't taking that next step. They're not connecting with you, they're not connecting through to become your clients. It's not so much about who they are as a person, who you might see, but more what is actually going on inside their head. What are those questions running on repeat inside their minds. What is it that they're feeling so stuck and frustrated about? And really, why aren't they able to shift themselves out of that place? Now these are just some of the amazing questions that I get you to explore inside my brand new customer avatar worksheet.
Jessica Osborn [00:40:12]:
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Jessica Osborn [00:41:12]:
So you can hop straight over there and just get it, download it and let me know how you get on. Like how did you find this exercise that I take you through? Because I guarantee you are going to learn more than one brand new thing about your ideal customer that you never knew before. So enjoy.
Cathy Camera [00:41:29]:
Good luck.
Jessica Osborn [00:41:30]:
I hope you love it as much as I do.
